"I hope that my last years will not be like my first."

An interview at his home? No, he didn't like that much, Franz Müntefering had said on the phone. So a neutral meeting place: the "Pan Am Lounge" in Berlin-Charlottenburg, a mid-century-style bar with a conference room and roof terrace. Willy Brandt regularly sat here in the fireplace room with a cigar and brandy – often together with Ludwig Erhard. Half a century later, Franz Müntefering arrives in a suit with a fitting red tie. He drinks water and doesn't show his hand at any time during the nearly three-hour conversation.